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Live Interview w/ Mark DeYmaz & Efrem Smith

Recently, I received a request to post this link to a live interview Efrem Smith and I gave as part of the festivities as the Exponential Conference in Orlando, FL (April 2009). Efrem is a good friend of mine, the pastor at Sanctuary Covenant Church in Minneapolis, MN and co-author of the book, Hip Hop Church. Together, we are part of a growing leadership seeking to catalyze the movement toward multi-ethnic churches throughout America and beyond. For those interested, I believe you will find this helpful. 

Tips for Building Healthy Multi-ethnic Churches

Join me for a free online webinar hosted by my good friends at Leadership Network on Thursday, November 13, from 3:00 pm - 4:00 pm CST. At that time, I will be responding to questions live as well as others posed to me in a similar forum we conducted this past summer. Due to the overwhelming response to the first webinar, this second session has now been scheduled. I hope you'll tune in and/or spread the word to those you know who might be interested.

Dr. Warren Bird asks, What Have You Learned?

Warren Bird, Ph.D., is Research Director at Leadership Network, and co-author of nineteen books on various aspects of church health and innovation. This week, he posted the following article on [email protected] Network, a blog featuring "first-hand reports of what innovative churches are doing." I discussed the post with him a couple of weeks ago and affirmed my own belief that mergers and campus plants (via multi-siting) are ways in which healthy, but otherwise homogeneous churches can expedite their pursuit of transition. In addition, I believe such a church would do well to consider launching a multi-ethnic venue within their existing weekend worship schedule.

Warren's entire post is repeated here (in bold) for your convenience. And after reading, please let me know what you think by commenting below.

What have you learned about launching an ethnic or multi-cultural site?
By Warren Bird

People like Mark DeYmaz have written about and modeled what he calls "the biblical mandate for the multi-ethnic church" -- see his book, Building a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church (San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass/Leadership Network, 2007).

Yet this is not the case for most churches. According to research conducted by sociologists Michael Emerson, Christian Smith, George Yancey and others, 92.5% of Catholic and Protestant churches throughout the United States can be classified as “mono-racial.” This term describes a church in which 80% or more of the individuals that attend are of the same ethnicity or race. The remaining churches (7.5%) can be described as “multi-racial,” i.e., churches in which there are a non-majority, collective population of at least 20%. By this definition, approximately 12% of Catholic churches, just less than 5% of evangelical churches and about 2.5% of mainline Protestant churches can be described as “multi-racial."

Early research by Dr. George Yancey, published in his book, One Body, One Spirit (Downer’s Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2003), identified general “principles of successful multi-racial churches.” Mark DeYmaz then adapted and restated them as follows, each a chapter in Building a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church:

1. Embrace Dependence
2. Take Intentional Steps
3. Empower Diverse Leadership
4. Develop Cross-Cultural Relationships
5. Pursue Cross-Cultural Competence
6. Promote a Spirit of Inclusion
7. Mobilize for Impact

Interestingly, the most multi-racial churches at present are the largest ones. Beyond Megachurch Myths by Scott Thumma and Dave Travis reports on a major 2005 study of very large churches. It asks, "What is the total percentage of attenders in your church that are not of the majority racial/ethnic group?" The average was 19%. Some 36% have 20% minority presence or more. The response to the next survey question was even more telling: "Is your congregation making efforts to become intentionally multi-ethnic?" A surprising 56% said yes.

What about churches that are multi-site? Are they placing much emphasis on launching ethnic or multi-cultural sites? I suspect it's a low priority for many. In Leadership Network's 2007 release named "Survey of 1,000 Multi-Site Churches," we asked for participants' primary motivation for doing multi-site. The overwhelming reply was evangelism" (63%), although 1% did say "cross language or ethnic barriers." we next asked their secondary motivation for doing multi-site. Of the same seven answers, there was a two-way tie for first place: solve overcrowding (27%) and bring our church closer to a target area (also 27%). This time 4% said "cross language or ethnic barriers" -- and those churches were different from the ones who said 1% earlier. So a total of 5% of the churches indicate it's a top motivation. That's 1 out of 20 cases.

Interestingly, another set of questions asked "To what extent are you reaching the same kinds of people on each campus in terms ofrace?" Only 12% said yes. When asked, "To what extent are you reaching the same kinds of people on each campus in terms oflanguage," only 5% said yes.

What's your sense between multi-ethnic churches and multi-ethnic campuses of multi-site churches? Which is more likely to take the lead, and why?

My prediction is that it will happen through mergers. Our multi-site survey also asked, "Have you used your multi-site approach to assist (or take responsibility for) a declining church?" Of 197 churches that replied to this question, 30% said yes, plus 10% more said "no but we plan to in the future." I think those mergers will open the way to more multi-ethnic congregations.

Webinar Now Scheduled by Leadership Network

Join me on July 9 for a webinar sponsored by the folks at Leadership Network entitled, Why You Should and How You Can Build a Healthy Multi-ethnic Church. Participants will be linked live by phone and able to participate with the interactive screen observed from their own computers. Reserve your seat now!

During this webinar, I’ll be sharing my vision of a healthy, multi-ethnic church with participants. I’ll also share what I’ve learned from scripture about how to articulate the New Testament vision, discuss current needs, and define the mission of a multi-ethnic church in a clear and concise way for others. In addition, I'll unpack the seven core commitments of a multi-ethnic church, generate practical ideas toward their implementation, and discuss common obstacles and ways to overcome them if the dream is to become reality.

This Leadership Network webinar will be useful for church planters as well as pastors seeking to revitalize churches in decline or to transform healthy but otherwise homogeneous churches around the multi-ethnic vision. Like the men of Issachar (I Chronicles 12:32), participants will leave with a better understanding of the times and more fully comprehend why I believe the most effective way to advance the Gospel in the 21st century will be through healthy multi-ethnic churches. Involvement will inspire those who believe the kingdom of heaven is not segregated to create local churches on earth that will not be either.

System Requirements
PC-based attendees
Required: Windows® 2000, XP Home, XP Pro, 2003 Server, Vista

Macintosh®-based attendees
Required: Mac OS® X 10.3.9 (Panther®) or newer

Clarifying the Need and Potential for Partnership

As the Multi-ethnic Church Movement gains momentum throughout the world, established ministry leaders who have pursued the development of mono-ethnic churches focused on first generation inter/nationals - whether here in North America or beyond - are concerned with the implications. Does the multi-ethnic vision dimension the importance of their work? Should their efforts continue? Are the two models for church planting, development and ministry mutually exclusive?

Along this line, I was recently asked to respond on behalf of the Mosaix Global Network to the head of an organization with whom MGN has partnered in the past through conferencing. In brief, the response clarifies our position and casts a vision for partnership in the years to come. Here's what I wrote ...

"Dear Dr. __________,

"It has come to my attention that some confusion exists within (your organization) as to the passion of the Mosaix Global Network for the multi-ethnic church. To be clear, our message is in no way intended to denigrate or in any way dismiss other models of ministry; and most specifically, those churches/ministries targeting first generation inter/nationals here in North America or beyond. The fact is, we believe the need for such churches/ministries, as well as the need for multi-ethnic churches is not an either/or but a both/and proposition: for clearly, extending the love of Christ to first generation people groups through their own language, customs and culture has proven effective as a method both for evangelism and church planting here in the US and around the world.

"Yet, it is equally true (as research has shown) that second and third generation believers produced in and through these otherwise homogeneous environments do not as readily identify with them over time. Consequently, second and third generation believers often leave these churches for other churches or worse yet, leave the Church altogether. Beyond this, one partner in a cross-cultural marriage is often (though unintentionally) disenfranchised by churches solely focused on a specific people group and rather than ministering to the whole family, such a church is positioned only to minister to a part of it.

"Looking ahead, then, one God-honoring solution would be to promote the development of intentional partnerships between churches/ministries specifically focused on first generation people groups and multi-ethnic churches who, while respecting the integrity of and the need for first generation fellowships, can work with them to serve the needs of the second and third generation and/or the rest of the family. Indeed, this type of partnership is something we have already established here at Mosaic with a Latino congregation and hope to do soon with a local Korean congregation, as well. And it is precisely with such partnership in mind that MGN can serve (your organization) well.

"All in all, I want to assure you that MGN remains sensitive to such issues and in no way believes or intends to suggest that there is only one way of doing things. And with greater sensitivity to the issue you have raised, we will approach any and all future opportunities to cast a vision for the multi-ethnic church.

"Thank you for raising this concern with Jim Spoonts recently and for this opportunity to address it with you. On behalf of MGN, we look forward to our continued partnership with (your organization) in the future."

One in Christ with you,

Dr. Mark DeYmaz
Pastor, Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas
Board Chairman, Mosaix Global Network

A Lessson in Cross-Cultural Competence

The following story is exerpted from the book, Building a Healthy Multi-ethnnic Church. I'm certain this is one you'll want to pass along to others!

"Not long after Mosaic moved into the old Wal-Mart building, we recognized that the time had come to buy chairs for the congregation. Having met for eighteen months in the sanctuary of an existing church, we had never needed chairs. Following the move, however, members of our church were asked to bring their own chairs to worship each week; and this they did, carrying them in one way or another like parents to a soccer game or families to a picnic. Most often, these chairs were the kind that easily fold open and break down, the ones that are carried in a little bag or stuff sack. Some of them even had footrests and cup-holders. I’ll never forget one woman who was pregnant at the time; she lay back in a chair, listening to the sermon with her feet propped up, sipping water from a large container through a straw!

"Having determined to buy four hundred chairs, we ordered one chair as a sample to show the congregation. One Sunday morning, I put it up on the platform and explained that we would need to collect $25 from every person in order to cover the cost of the chairs. I added that our staff liked both the look and the feel of the chair and had even tested it out earlier in the week. “You know,” I said, settling comfortably into the chair, 'it feels pretty good to my buns!' When I did, the congregation laughed a bit, so I went on to milk the moment. 'In fact, not only have I sat my buns in the chair, but most of the staff has sat their buns in the chair. And they, too, think it feels pretty good!' More laughter. 'Now some on our staff have bigger buns than others,' I said, “but even the biggest buns among us agree. So after the service, why don’t you come and sit your buns, big or small, in the chair and tell us what you think!'

"By this time, the congregation was fully animated, as I probably used the word buns six or seven times for comic effect. Yes, everyone in the room—the Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Cubans, those from the Middle East, Europe, and Africa—were all fully engaged and laughing—everyone, that is, except the Mexicans. No, they were not at all amused. Although my comments had been simultaneously interpreted into Spanish, apparently something had been lost in translation!

"Now Inés Velasquez-McBryde, Mosaic’s Director of Cross-Cultural Ministries, is a very skilled interpreter. Having grown up in Nicaragua, she began translating English to Spanish at the age of eleven, serving alongside her father in working with North American mission teams coming into the country. She is much more than a translator; she has an excellent command of common language, as well as theological concepts. On this day, however, even Inés was to learn something new!

"Following the service, one of the Mexican women frantically approached Inés and, grabbing her by the arm, said, 'Don’t ever say that word again!' Her tone of voice told Inés that something was the matter. After some discussion, the woman fi nally calmed down but only when she realized the problem. You see, in translating the word buns, Inés had used the term nalgas, which in most countries throughout Central and South America carries, in tone and tenor, a force equivalent to the English term buns. Yet in Mexico, the term is more vulgar; it’s equivalent to the English word ass!

"Now I want you to imagine for a moment, your pastor getting up on a Sunday morning and saying, 'You know, this chair feels pretty good to my ass! In fact, not only have I sat my ass in the chair, but most of the staff has sat their ass in the chair, as well. . . . Now some on our staff have bigger asses than others, but even the biggest asses among us agree! So after the service, why don’t you come and sit your ass, whether big or small, in the chair and tell us what you think.'

"This is exactly what the Mexicans heard me say that day! For within the Spanish language, there are variations in dialect, word meaning, and usage across regions, countries, and continents. Fortunately, the Mexicans forgave us, and through this experience, we learned a valuable lesson in pursuit of cross-cultural competence.

"The understanding we need to be effective in a cross-cultural environment is gained through experience and interaction with diverse people, especially with those who are one in the Lord. To build a healthy multi-ethnic church, then, we must commit ourselves to the pursuit of cross-cultural competence, whether that means becoming profi cient in the idiosyncrasies of language or the ins and outs of customs and traditions different from our own. Once acquired, cross-cultural competence allows us to interact in a more informed and effective way with others of varying ethnic or economic backgrounds. Though the challenge is formidable, the journey to acquire it, as we have seen, is not without its lighter moments! Indeed, in many ways cross-cultural competence is more caught than taught."

NY Times Features Multi-ethnic Church, Movement

On Saturday, September 22, the New York Times ran a front page article entitled, The World Comes to Georgia and an Old Church Adapts. The aritcle tells the story of Pastor Phil Kitchin of Clarkston, GA, and his successful efforts to revitalize a dying church around the multi-ethnic vision. Beyond this, the writer (Warren St. John) eludes to the growing fascination with diverse congregations of faith - namely, the emerging Multi-ethnic Church Movement. Here in bold is an excerpt:

"When the Rev. Phil Kitchin steps into the pulpit of the Clarkston International Bible Church on Sunday mornings, he stands eye to eye with the changing face of America. In the pews before him, alongside white-haired Southern women in their Sunday best, sit immigrants from the Philippines and Togo, refugees from war-scarred Liberia, Ethiopia and Sudan, even a convert from Afghanistan.

'Jesus said heaven is a place for people of all nations,' Mr. Kitchin likes to say. 'So if you don’t like Clarkston, you won’t like heaven.' ...

"The transformation of what was long known as the Clarkston Baptist Church (now known as the Clarkston International Bible Church) speaks to a broader change among other American churches. Many evangelical Christians who have long believed in spreading their religion in faraway lands have found that immigrants offer an opportunity for church work within one’s own community. And many immigrants and refugees are drawn by the warm welcome they get from the parishioners, which can stand in stark contrast to the more competitive and alienating nature of workaday America.

"Indeed, evangelical churches have begun to stand out as rare centers of ethnic mixing in a country that researchers say has become more culturally fragmented, in part because of immigration."

If you read the article, you will see that I, too, am briefly quoted (and Mosaic mentioned) on page 2; and after contacting Pastor Kitchin to inquire as to how I had come to be interviewed, he responded with "the rest of the story." Here's what he had to say ...

Hello Mark,

Good to hear from you. I met you two years ago at the Multi-ethnic Church Conference at Rehoboth Baptist Church here in Atlanta. Like you, we have numerous people groups within one mile of our church. Warren St. John came to our community last year to do an article about the Fugees Soccer program here in Clarkston. Although his article was not about our church, he referred to us as a Christian Church who uses basketball as a guise to do Muslim evangelism. I called his hand on that and suggested that he come down and find out what we really do. He accepted the challenge and was astonished to find so many different people groups worshipping God in one place and not killing each other. That’s when I mentioned your name and the pioneer movement going on in the US to have true, multi-ethnic churches. I hope that was alright with you.

I love your work brother, and I have already ordered your book.

In the love of Christ,
Phil Kitchin

Of course, it was alright with me:-)

More importantly, I want to congratulate Pastor Kitchin for his bold vision, leadership and well-deserved recognition that has led to hundreds of thousands of people (in March 2007, the paper reported a weekday circulation of roughly 1,120,420) being exposed to his heart, the vision of his church and, indeed, the movement that will literally change the face (and, more importantly, the heart) of the American church in the 21st century. For as my book will make clear, it's not about racial reconciliation, but rather about reconciling men and women to God through faith in Jesus Christ and reconciling the local church to the pattern and practices of the 1st century church so the world will know God's love and believe (John 17:20-23; Acts 11:19-26; 13:1; Ephesians 2:11-4:6).

On a related note, Mosaic was also cited this week in the Christian Science Monitor in an article entitled Little Rock Marks a Civil Rights Victory (9/26/07), and, as well, in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette in an article entitled, Multi-ethnic Church Thrives in Little Rock (9/22/07). This article is available only via purchase through the Arkansas Democrat Gazette's online archives.

Segregated House Churches in the NT?

Concerning my last post (Segregationist Rhetoric and Christian Jargon, 1957), Colin Thomas asked ...

"How would you answer the objection to the scriptural sanction of multi-ethnic churches (I think initially raised by Peter Wagner), that when Paul wrote his epistles he wrote to groups of churches which would of been ethnically and culturally distinct, e.g. when he wrote Romans it would of been passed to a Jewish house congregation and then to a Gentile house congregation? Therefore the great exortation to horizontal unity in Ephesians was between different congregations?"

Here's my response ...

Thank you for your good question, Colin. It is true that Paul's letters were circulated among the churches in the first century. However, I do not at all agree that segregation within the church, i.e., "a Jewish house congregation" and a "Gentile house congregation" existed at this time.

It is possible that such a conclusion is drawn from a misreading of Paul's farewell comments to the elders of the Ephesian church as recorded by Luke in Acts 20:17-21. In the transition from verse 20 which ends, "... but have taught you publicly and from house to house," and verse 21 which begins, "I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance ..." some may not recognize that these are two separate points.

In other words, Paul is not saying that he taught Jewish and Gentile Christians in separate houses, only that he has proclaimed the gospel to Jews and Greeks alike. Notice further that he called for the elders of the (singular) church of Ephesus (verse 17) and it is the people (Christians) of this one church that he has taught both publicly (as, for instance, in the School of Tyrannus, Acts 19:9) and from house to house in a small group setting (as we often find in churches today), in no way implying a segregated church (verse 20). Indeed, to assert such things, in my view, is to read into the text that which is not otherwise stated or intended.

And such an argument most surely flies in the face of all that Christ envisioned (John 17:20-23ff.), the integrated environment at Antioch (Acts 11:19-26; 13:1; see also 11:18) and Paul's prescription for the church throughout the book of Ephesians (see specifically 2:11-4:6). For instance, if Paul had in mind one Church comprised of segregated house-to-house congregations, why would he write, "And in Him, you (i.e., Jewsish and Gentile converts), too, are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by His Spirit," (NIV).

Such things are further explained in my book. In fact, here (in bold) is an excerpt you may find helpful.

"Paul’s experience in Ephesus begins with a brief stop there en route to Syria. As was his custom, “he ... entered the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews” (Acts 18:19). Though invited to remain in the city, he deferred, promising “to return ... again if God wills” (Acts 18:21).

It was on his third missionary journey that Paul fulfilled this promise. Coming into the city, he encountered twelve men—disciples who had been baptized only into “John’s baptism” (Acts 19:1–3, 7). Discovering, however, that they had not yet received or even heard of the Holy Spirit, he offered them a more complete explanation of the Gospel. “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus,” (Acts 19:5).

The timing of their introduction in Acts makes it probable that these men were disciples of Apollos, whose ministry in Ephesus is reported to have taken place between Paul’s second and third missionary journeys. Apollos had been instructed in the way of the Lord (Acts 18:25), and though fervent in spirit, his understanding was limited; according to this passage, he was “acquainted only with the baptism of John.” In addition, Luke tells us that in Achaia, Apollos “powerfully refuted the Jews in public,” (Acts 18:28). We can assume he had done so in Ephesus as well.

Following this event, Paul again entered the synagogue, “reasoning and persuading [Jews] about the kingdom of God,” for a period of three months (Acts 19:8). According to the next verse, there were some who believed and some who did not. Those who did believe were taken from the synagogue to be taught in the School of Tyrannus, to which Paul transferred his public teaching ministry for the next two years. And it was through Paul’s teaching there that “all who lived in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks,” (Acts 19:10).

Consequently, the multi-ethnic nature of the church at Ephesus began to take shape. In Acts 19:17 we learn that the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified among both Jews and Greeks who lived at Ephesus. Even Paul himself speaks to the diversity of the church in his farewell address to the Ephesian elders (Acts 20:21).

From the beginning, then, the church at Ephesus included both Jewish and Gentile converts. Together with the tone and tenor of Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, such passages argue strongly for a community of inclusion at Ephesus."

I hope these thoughts help others, too, in further consideration of the Biblical mandate for the multi-ethnic local church. Thanks again, Colin, for the question.

The Death of Diversity Signals the Rise of the Multi-ethnic Church

On August 16, 2007, Daniel Henninger published an article in the Wall Street Journal discussing the findings of an extensive study on the impact and effects of diversity, one conducted by Professor Robert Putnam (Harvard) and recently published in a journal called Scandinavian Political Studies. Here's an excerpt ...

"The diversity ideologues ruined a good word and, properly understood, a decent notion. What's needed now is for a younger black, brown or polka-dot writer to recast the idea in a way that restores the worth and utility of assimilation. Somebody had better do it soon; the first chart offered in the Putnam study depicts inexorably rising rates of immigration in many nations. The idea that the U.S. can wave into effect a 10-year "time out" on immigration flows is as likely as King Canute commanding the tides to recede. Here, too, Robert Putnam has a possible assimilation model. Hold onto your hat. It's Christian evangelical megachurches. 'In many large evangelical congregations,' he writes, 'the participants constituted the largest thoroughly integrated gatherings we have ever witnessed.' This, too, is an inconvenient truth. They do it with low entry barriers to the church and by offering lots of little groups to join inside the larger 'shared identity' of the church. A Harvard prof finds good in evangelical megachurches. Send this man a suit of body armor!"

While there is some internet chatter re. the reporting of these findings, it should not at all be surprising to those of us who believe that apart from Jesus Christ and the local church, "beloved community" cannot otherwise be achieved. Read the entire Henniger article as published in the Wall St. Journal on August 16, 2007 and let me know what you think.

A Bright Light in the Public Square

The growing movement toward multi-ethnic churches must not be fueled by a desire to grow a church numerically. Nor should we embrace the vision simply in light of changing times and neighborhoods or because it is somehow “cool” or politically correct. The movement and the healthy multi-ethnic church must be built instead on the fi rm foundation of the Word of God and a desire to lead individuals to Christ.

We should recognize that the unity of diverse believers walking together as one in and through the local church provides for us the most effective means for reaching the world with the Gospel in the twenty-first century. Such unity was envisioned by Christ, described for us (by Luke) at Antioch, and prescribed by Paul in his letter to the Ephesians. In other words, we must embrace the vision because it is “spiritually correct” and, while not necessarily easy, a right and noble pursuit. Yes, the multi-ethnic church is the church of our past and our future! Likewise, the goal is not to become multi-ethnic simply for diversity’s sake. Rather, the goal of a healthy multi-ethnic church, once established, is to turn the power and pleasure of God, as displayed uniquely in such settings, outward in order to (1) bless the city, (2) lead people to Christ, (3) encourage the greater body, and (4) fulfill the Great Commission.

Excerpt from the book, Building a Healthy Multi-ethnic Church by Mark DeYmaz (Jossey-Bass/Leadership Network, 2007).